Curse

Moloch Vein · Sep 23, 2007, 09:15 PM // 21:15

The first time I saw the new GW:EN skill Angorodon's Gaze, all I could think of was "right, another exploit waiting to happen."

Now we see this exploit at work. 4-man TA teams of Me/N spamming the shit out of the spell mowing down everything in their way. Even HA teams using the spell as the core skill, which is elite-material if I ever seen one.

It should be obvious to most people that this is a nerf waiting to happen. It simply isn't reasonable that a person should be able to spam 40 life steals of 70+ each for 0 energy cost.

However, I'm worried about how this nerf will be designed.

In my humble opinion, Arenanet added this spell as a way for primary necromancers to make use of life-stealing skills, thus creating a rivaling build to the infamous touch ranger. Now, they've only succeeded in creating a supercharged mesmer build.

I believe the energy return from this spell needs to be linked to Soul Reaping, possibly with an energy return of SR*1.

Note: For those unaware of the specific Me/N build, it centers around:

Mantra of Recovery - Signet of Agony/Blood Drinker - Arcane Echo - Angorodon's Gaze

Kindly, Moloch

LifesRestorer · Sep 23, 2007, 09:28 PM // 21:28

d/shot or diversion me pliz.

Moloch Vein · Sep 23, 2007, 09:33 PM // 21:33

I am very aware about possible counters. There are counters to many builds in common usage. However... how much Diversion/Distracting Shot will you need to shut down an Angorodon team? All I can say is, you sure can't do it with one standard Panic mesmer.

moko · Sep 23, 2007, 09:42 PM // 21:42

moved to the right forum.

i actually like your idea on the energy there Moloch. however, Izzy plans to nerf this to 12 energy gain (LOLLLLL) so gg...

should have a slight reduction in lifesteal also.

LifeRestorer

MoR, the echoed one AND FC (they have about 14-16) make this incredibly hard to hit with dshot at least, also you should know how sucky most of the TA maps are for rangers. Diversion is another thing; but i guess preveil is too hard to use (the mesmers have their own cover) and while being spiked by them..etc.

Moloch Vein · Sep 23, 2007, 09:58 PM // 21:58

Nerfing this to 12 energy is just bad. There's not exactly a shortage of decent energy skills to use to make up for it in the mesmer line.

One point would be how Anet keeps introducing skills in the BM line that are only usable for anyone but necromancers. Now you could say I'm partial but the point is that the synergy with other classes makes the skills overpowered. I still maintain that the standard touch ranger is an overpowered build for many situations, and it's been around forever with no sign of remedies.

If you still want to make the skill "usable" for non-N primaries it's easy tweaking. Say, return = 5e + (POS(SR-5)), or whatever.

Alex the Great · Sep 23, 2007, 10:24 PM // 22:24

buff the damage a little, add 1 to the recharge, and make it an elite.

moko · Sep 23, 2007, 11:02 PM // 23:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex the Great

buff the damage a little, add 1 to the recharge, and make it an elite.

no elites in eotn.

fail.

Servant of Kali · Sep 24, 2007, 01:04 PM // 13:04

The problem with Blood Magic is that spells go through prot. That means the skills will either suck in itself, or be too strong and used in spikes which again sucks.

LifesRestorer · Sep 24, 2007, 03:30 PM // 15:30

cmon, if they're spamming it every 2 seconds or so it cant be that hard to just press it in sync with them.

Thomas.knbk · Sep 24, 2007, 03:47 PM // 15:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifesRestorer

cmon, if they're spamming it every 2 seconds or so it cant be that hard to just press it in sync with them.

you need to Dshot/diversion both of them. Seriously, are you going to argue it's OK because you can divert it?

moko · Sep 24, 2007, 04:00 PM // 16:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by LifesRestorer

cmon, if they're spamming it every 2 seconds or so it cant be that hard to just press it in sync with them.

seriously, havn't we all learned by now that arguing this way is absolutely useless?

and besides, you did ignore all of my arguments why it might be hard. also guardian ftw? some teams even run aegis by now.

Moloch Vein · Sep 24, 2007, 09:40 PM // 21:40

The casting time of this spell at 14 FC (which is usually the lowest it's run at) is 0.52 seconds...

And to bring up all the normal arguments: YES, you can use Shadow Form and Vow of Silence (lol). YES, you can use Shroud of Silence (again, lol). YES, you can d-shot/divert the spell, and lo and behold, all you have to do is divert/d-shot four 0.52 cast spells to bring the damage down to an acceptable level. Actually, strike that. One armor ignoring protection ignoring spike of 284 HP every 2.5 seconds that at the same time functions as a self-heal, all for no energy cost, isn't acceptable.

OI-812 · Sep 24, 2007, 10:18 PM // 22:18

I have been subject to a raping from Me/N's spamming Angorodon's Gays. One used Echo instead of Mantra of Recovery. It's absurd on a number of levels. I like the SR idea.

Moloch Vein · Sep 24, 2007, 10:53 PM // 22:53

Note that this isn't a thread of the type "boo-hoo, we got 0wned, plz nerf". I'll be frank, I run this build myself at the moment. It would be silly not to.

However and all at the same time it is clear to me what a joke it really is. And I'm really tired of half of the spells in the BM line being abused by secondaries. The BM line is not innovative. It's got extremely limited versatility apart for its two Standard Spells, Spoil Victor and Blood is Power. It's the poster boy for promoting overpowered brain-dead builds. But that's another matter.

I think the entire necromancer spell line needs to be worked over, because as it is, many things are very illogical. However I'm resigned to the fact that what we'll get is a quick fix. However, if that's the case, I implore the designers to make a quick, elegant fix to the situation - not one that either makes no difference or one that destroys yet another necromancer spell like Verata's Sacrifice.

The quick, elegant fix just struck me while writing this post:

Angorodon's Gaze: Functionality changed.

Steal 15...63 Health from target foe. If you and target foe are both suffering from a Condition, you gain 5+SR Energy.

With the possible addition of:

Foul Feast: Functionality changed.

You and target foe suffer from Weakness for 10 seconds. Steal 5...25 health for each Condition on you and target foe. (Maximum 90 health)

^ Seriously, that skill needs a buff. It's so abysmal people haven't even bothered writing the tables for it at Wiki.

placebo overdose · Sep 24, 2007, 11:16 PM // 23:16

make it have a req SR of 3 or fail rate of 50% for nrg gain
is this idea unconventional yes
is it a good fix yes

Razz L Dazzle · Sep 25, 2007, 07:39 PM // 19:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk

you need to Dshot/diversion both of them. Seriously, are you going to argue it's OK because you can divert it?

Someone always will...Maybe they will list all the possible counters to that build next.

Can't Wait!!

Thomas.knbk · Sep 25, 2007, 08:40 PM // 20:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Razz L Dazzle

Someone always will...Maybe they will list all the possible counters to that build next.

Can't Wait!!

just divert Dshot and Dshot diversion

Or Divert Diversion and Dshot Dshot. that's called wtfpwnage

Razz L Dazzle · Sep 25, 2007, 09:20 PM // 21:20

Maybe we should all run Powerblock then those blood spiking spammers will be out of luck.

Moloch Vein · Sep 25, 2007, 11:04 PM // 23:04

Yup... let's all run Power Block...

ockhams · Sep 25, 2007, 11:28 PM // 23:28

i ran this through RA a lil bit to see what the fuss was about. it's definitely overpowered. i stood toe to toe with a toucher and he ended up running at which point i dropped his sorry ass with this build (serves him right for running out-dated shit i guess).

i think an energy gain nerf would do the trick tho. really anything around 10e gain is simple enuf to deal with. scaling energy gain down to 5e with a soul reaping buff would just make this usable only on necro primaries and you would see the limited use, but it would still be a bitch of a skill. really... spamming life steals is just f'ing lazy. i think there has to be a nerf to recharge as well. 8s would be appropriate. it's a 70+ heal while most non-monk prof heals over 90hp are 8s recharge without dealing dmg (and disregarding that derv sig shit). good insight in the OP. i agree, but that's just my opinion.